mkruck
Apr 6, 04:41 PM
Don't understand that there needs to be a pissing contest about Xoom OR ipad.
Why are the Xoom guys even here on a Mac site, to tell us THEIR device is better?
Let's even assume they are right.
Go buy your Xoom and be happy if it does what you want No harm, no foul.
The Apple users buy Apple until something better comes along also as long as it does what they want.
They love the possible integration with their other devices and when that comes to Xoom or something else is better they will switch.
Technology pace is amazingly fast and nobody knows what is next.
Perhaps Xoom owners are on here because we own multiple devices and like all of them. Just because I'm using an Android device doesn't mean that I'm forever barred from reading and posting on a Mac forum.
Reading through the existing 8 pages, most of the Xoom owners aren't saying their device is better; rather, they're (we're) providing comments around what Android can do. To be quite honest, the defensive and snarky comments are coming from those that are not Xoom owners. Really makes me wonder why they are so defensive and strident, you know? Deflection? Insecurity? Projecting?
Yes, I'm being a smartass, no one needs to get their panties in a wad.
Why are the Xoom guys even here on a Mac site, to tell us THEIR device is better?
Let's even assume they are right.
Go buy your Xoom and be happy if it does what you want No harm, no foul.
The Apple users buy Apple until something better comes along also as long as it does what they want.
They love the possible integration with their other devices and when that comes to Xoom or something else is better they will switch.
Technology pace is amazingly fast and nobody knows what is next.
Perhaps Xoom owners are on here because we own multiple devices and like all of them. Just because I'm using an Android device doesn't mean that I'm forever barred from reading and posting on a Mac forum.
Reading through the existing 8 pages, most of the Xoom owners aren't saying their device is better; rather, they're (we're) providing comments around what Android can do. To be quite honest, the defensive and snarky comments are coming from those that are not Xoom owners. Really makes me wonder why they are so defensive and strident, you know? Deflection? Insecurity? Projecting?
Yes, I'm being a smartass, no one needs to get their panties in a wad.
budafied
Apr 6, 10:49 AM
This may make my 13" MBP summer purchase change a bit...
It'd be a hard choice between a current i5 13" MBP and an i5 13" MBA, especially with that higher res screen and the SSD. The only problem is that it will be my only machine, so I'm not sure I can do just an Air for an extended period of time. The netbook-only setup I have now is pretty lame.
It'd be a hard choice between a current i5 13" MBP and an i5 13" MBA, especially with that higher res screen and the SSD. The only problem is that it will be my only machine, so I'm not sure I can do just an Air for an extended period of time. The netbook-only setup I have now is pretty lame.
NathanMuir
Feb 28, 06:36 PM
Well, I have nothing to say, but that the University has grounds for dismissal if difference of opinion arises.
True, you can argue the gay card, but in this case, they college played the rights cards to get rid of him. Was it the best choice? No.
Still, it's the college's right on who teaches or not; and seeing how it's a Catholic Church college, I'd say it was bound to happen.
I agree, the situation in the OP was bound to happen sooner or later.
True, you can argue the gay card, but in this case, they college played the rights cards to get rid of him. Was it the best choice? No.
Still, it's the college's right on who teaches or not; and seeing how it's a Catholic Church college, I'd say it was bound to happen.
I agree, the situation in the OP was bound to happen sooner or later.
AppliedVisual
Oct 22, 03:14 PM
I heard Leo Laporte talking about this on his KFI podcast... exciting... one question... how many softwares take advantage of multi cores? I understand that the OS can deal with it for multi tasking, but how many programs multi thread?
DD
Unfortunately not many multithreaded apps - yet. For a long time most of the multi-threaded apps were just a select few pro level things. 3D/Visualization software, CAD, database systems, etc.. Those of us who had multiprocessor systems bought them because we had a specific software in mind or group of software applications that could take advantage of multiple processors. As current CPU manufacturing processes started hitting a wall right around the 3GHz mark, chip makers started to transition to multiple CPU cores to boost power - makes sense. Software developers have been lazy for years, just riding the wave of ever-increasing MHz. Now the multi-core CPUs are here and the software is behind as many applications need to have serious re-writes done in order to take advantage of multiple processors. Intel tried to get a jump on this with their HT (Hyper Threading) implementation that essentially simulated dual-cores on a CPU by way of two virtual CPUs. Software developers didn't exactly jump on this and warm up to it. But I also don't think the software industry truly believed that CPUs would go multi-core on a mass scale so fast... Intel and AMD both said they would, don't know why the software industry doubted. Intel and AMD are uncommonly good about telling the truth about upcoming products. Both will be shipping quad-core CPU offerings by year's end.
DD
Unfortunately not many multithreaded apps - yet. For a long time most of the multi-threaded apps were just a select few pro level things. 3D/Visualization software, CAD, database systems, etc.. Those of us who had multiprocessor systems bought them because we had a specific software in mind or group of software applications that could take advantage of multiple processors. As current CPU manufacturing processes started hitting a wall right around the 3GHz mark, chip makers started to transition to multiple CPU cores to boost power - makes sense. Software developers have been lazy for years, just riding the wave of ever-increasing MHz. Now the multi-core CPUs are here and the software is behind as many applications need to have serious re-writes done in order to take advantage of multiple processors. Intel tried to get a jump on this with their HT (Hyper Threading) implementation that essentially simulated dual-cores on a CPU by way of two virtual CPUs. Software developers didn't exactly jump on this and warm up to it. But I also don't think the software industry truly believed that CPUs would go multi-core on a mass scale so fast... Intel and AMD both said they would, don't know why the software industry doubted. Intel and AMD are uncommonly good about telling the truth about upcoming products. Both will be shipping quad-core CPU offerings by year's end.
SteveRichardson
Jul 27, 11:04 AM
Me too. I'm just going to hang onto my aging iBook G4 until they come out. I really would kick myself if I bought a MacBook Pro now so close to them being updated. I'm just hoping I can order soon, and then they will arrive at the end of August... just in time for school. *crosses fingers*
Yeah same same. Haha I've had my iBook G4 for like 2 1/2 years now (can it be that long already?).
tiiimeee for an upgrade.
I wonder if they can ship it to my dorm in one piece if needed (as in if I need to wait that long before they become available....:( )
Yeah same same. Haha I've had my iBook G4 for like 2 1/2 years now (can it be that long already?).
tiiimeee for an upgrade.
I wonder if they can ship it to my dorm in one piece if needed (as in if I need to wait that long before they become available....:( )
geerlingguy
Aug 16, 11:29 PM
That's great that Adobe apps runs well under Rosetta in the new Mac Pro.
It makes very tempting to buy one.
My only concern comes to any Rev.A of any hardware.
I'll wait and buy the next version of Mac Pro. I think then, even under Rosetta Adobe apps will fly in comparison to the Quad G5. Can't wait for the universal apps though.
Always a judicious choice. I know that my Dad had about 6 months of little gripes with his DP G5 (1st generation) because of fan and 'buzzing' problems. He was kind of a 'beta tester' of the new hardware until a firmware update fixed his main problems.
Plus, if the 1st generation turns out to be reliable, you could get a used 1st gen. machine for a nice deal once the 2nd gen. machines are released!
It makes very tempting to buy one.
My only concern comes to any Rev.A of any hardware.
I'll wait and buy the next version of Mac Pro. I think then, even under Rosetta Adobe apps will fly in comparison to the Quad G5. Can't wait for the universal apps though.
Always a judicious choice. I know that my Dad had about 6 months of little gripes with his DP G5 (1st generation) because of fan and 'buzzing' problems. He was kind of a 'beta tester' of the new hardware until a firmware update fixed his main problems.
Plus, if the 1st generation turns out to be reliable, you could get a used 1st gen. machine for a nice deal once the 2nd gen. machines are released!
Rt&Dzine
Apr 29, 10:23 AM
The name-calling is childish, too. In fact, you usually hear it from left-wingers.
Here we go again. Broad generalizations. Go to the responses to blogs and articles on the internet and you'll see this isn't true.
Here we go again. Broad generalizations. Go to the responses to blogs and articles on the internet and you'll see this isn't true.
hyperpasta
Aug 5, 06:01 PM
My guess is that it won't happen until 07
I have my money on 06. Tiger was an especially API-heavy release. It introduced Spotlight, Dashboard, and Automator, which all depend on developers to extend them. In addition, it introduced other technologies of interest to developers, such as Core Image and Core Video.
If we look at the Leopard rumors, we can see the following features being feasible:
*Unified Interface
*Windows Virtualization
*New Finder
*BitTorrent
*iChat with Phone Calling
*Maps application
*Random Application Updates
*Improved Speech capabilities
*Collaboration API ("Core Collaboration?")
Now lets narrow that down to features of interest to developers:
*Unified Interface
*BitTorrent
*Collaboration API
Not such big changes. Unless there are some wild cards in there (and I hope there will be!) that are developer-centric, this is a pretty easy release for developers to swallow. This will be a consumer-centric release.
I have my money on 06. Tiger was an especially API-heavy release. It introduced Spotlight, Dashboard, and Automator, which all depend on developers to extend them. In addition, it introduced other technologies of interest to developers, such as Core Image and Core Video.
If we look at the Leopard rumors, we can see the following features being feasible:
*Unified Interface
*Windows Virtualization
*New Finder
*BitTorrent
*iChat with Phone Calling
*Maps application
*Random Application Updates
*Improved Speech capabilities
*Collaboration API ("Core Collaboration?")
Now lets narrow that down to features of interest to developers:
*Unified Interface
*BitTorrent
*Collaboration API
Not such big changes. Unless there are some wild cards in there (and I hope there will be!) that are developer-centric, this is a pretty easy release for developers to swallow. This will be a consumer-centric release.
toddybody
Apr 6, 01:09 PM
People who keep waiting for the next rev will never buy a computer. The "right time to buy" is probably not until the Macbook Air has Skymont in 2015. :p
Oh come on dude:) Theres certainly a balance...for instance, youd have been crazy to buy a MBP a 3 months ago (unless of course you NEEDED it). Now, I totally dig your criticism that some folks take that too far.
Oh come on dude:) Theres certainly a balance...for instance, youd have been crazy to buy a MBP a 3 months ago (unless of course you NEEDED it). Now, I totally dig your criticism that some folks take that too far.
Sirmausalot
Apr 10, 11:42 AM
I think the studio concept, as we know, it will be gone. It will all be one truly integrated application. Most importantly, full audio editing will be integrated obviating the need for OMFs and conforms for the person who does all of their own work.
This will include a powerful titling tool, Motion graphics, compression, sound. There shouldn't be a need to launch an external application. Integrated Internet delivery will be comprehensive to social media, iDevices, and anything in the cloud.
DVD Studio Pro will get a full overhaul and fully support The Bag of Hurt Blu-ray -- on an external burner for the new iMacs which will also be announced. Again, physical media gets an external treatment and the application will be the sperate step child of the newly integrated Final Studio.
This will include a powerful titling tool, Motion graphics, compression, sound. There shouldn't be a need to launch an external application. Integrated Internet delivery will be comprehensive to social media, iDevices, and anything in the cloud.
DVD Studio Pro will get a full overhaul and fully support The Bag of Hurt Blu-ray -- on an external burner for the new iMacs which will also be announced. Again, physical media gets an external treatment and the application will be the sperate step child of the newly integrated Final Studio.
Unspeaked
Nov 29, 12:10 PM
I'm certainly not on the record label's side on this, and I'm someone who almost never downloads anything online (not even free, MP3 of the week type tracks), but I think two important things we're glossing over are:
1 It is illegal to pirate music, regardless of whether or not a label gives their artists their fair share of profits.
2 Like it or not, most of the music on most people's portable music players is downloaded off of P2P. We "affluent" Mac users, who stay on the cutting edge of technology and come to places like MacRumors for heated exchanges about Apple news are not a typical cross section of music consumers.
I'd reckon most iPods are owned by the under 21 crowd, who've grown up with P2P as an ever-present option for music, and who swap songs with friends without thinking twice about it.
And as this generation gets older, things will only get worse for the labels, I figure.
On the other hand, at some point in time, this same generation will be in our courtrooms running the judicial system and in our capitol running our government, so it could be that some of these antiquated laws get modified for the digital age, but until then, refer back to Points 1 and 2 above and realize that despite how we may feel about the issue, it's illegal to download music freely and most people are doing it...
1 It is illegal to pirate music, regardless of whether or not a label gives their artists their fair share of profits.
2 Like it or not, most of the music on most people's portable music players is downloaded off of P2P. We "affluent" Mac users, who stay on the cutting edge of technology and come to places like MacRumors for heated exchanges about Apple news are not a typical cross section of music consumers.
I'd reckon most iPods are owned by the under 21 crowd, who've grown up with P2P as an ever-present option for music, and who swap songs with friends without thinking twice about it.
And as this generation gets older, things will only get worse for the labels, I figure.
On the other hand, at some point in time, this same generation will be in our courtrooms running the judicial system and in our capitol running our government, so it could be that some of these antiquated laws get modified for the digital age, but until then, refer back to Points 1 and 2 above and realize that despite how we may feel about the issue, it's illegal to download music freely and most people are doing it...
Multimedia
Aug 19, 12:33 PM
And I'm not convinced this is only an application problem. When I run Handbrake on the Quad G5 alone it uses just over two cores 203% @ about 100fps analysis (1st Pass of 2) speed. If I add a Toast encode while that is happening, Handbrake takes a huge hit down to below 150% @ 70-80 fps analysis while Toast can only use about 130% instead of more alone. So the Tiger OS X seems to have difficulty managing more than one multicore application's core usage allocation up to its maximum capability - IE Tiger is not so MultiCore Enabeled as it could be IE Leopard probably will be much moreso - let's hope that is one of its TOP SECRETS.
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better. Handbrake alone can analyze up to around 134fps while writing at about 107 fps using about 1.5-1.75 cores. So while not yet fully optimized for Mac Pro yet, it's already outperforming the Quad G5 significantly. Handbrake would appear to analyze files about 33% faster while writing them about 15% faster while using 1.5 to 1.75 cores. Quad G5 does analysis @ about 100fps and writes about 93 fps (2nd Pass) using up to about 2.2 cores.
Toast 7.1 UB uses Mac Pro cores much more than it does Quad cores - in the range of 280 - 310% IE about 3 cores compared to only about 1.5 cores on the Quad G5 as well as on the Dual Core G5. Unfortunately I didn't have encode times for each of the sample files I brought with me from the Quad so I don't know the real time how much faster that really amounts to. Running simultaneously on the Mac Pro, Toast would use over 2.5 cores while handbrake would use only one or less than one at best.
Together simultaneously on Mac Pro 2.66 it's
Toast/Handbrake
2.7 cores/1 core best
2.5 cores/.75 core worst
Handbrake during Toast is down to as few as 60fps but sometimes up to 100fps as well. Toast meanwhile is Still consuming up to almost 3 cores with Handbrake running at the same time. So Toast would appear to be much more optimized for the Mac Pro's MultiCores than it is for the Quad G5's Multicores. Same could be said for Handbrake - especially since it is not really fully Optimized for Mac Pro yet.
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better. Handbrake alone can analyze up to around 134fps while writing at about 107 fps using about 1.5-1.75 cores. So while not yet fully optimized for Mac Pro yet, it's already outperforming the Quad G5 significantly. Handbrake would appear to analyze files about 33% faster while writing them about 15% faster while using 1.5 to 1.75 cores. Quad G5 does analysis @ about 100fps and writes about 93 fps (2nd Pass) using up to about 2.2 cores.
Toast 7.1 UB uses Mac Pro cores much more than it does Quad cores - in the range of 280 - 310% IE about 3 cores compared to only about 1.5 cores on the Quad G5 as well as on the Dual Core G5. Unfortunately I didn't have encode times for each of the sample files I brought with me from the Quad so I don't know the real time how much faster that really amounts to. Running simultaneously on the Mac Pro, Toast would use over 2.5 cores while handbrake would use only one or less than one at best.
Together simultaneously on Mac Pro 2.66 it's
Toast/Handbrake
2.7 cores/1 core best
2.5 cores/.75 core worst
Handbrake during Toast is down to as few as 60fps but sometimes up to 100fps as well. Toast meanwhile is Still consuming up to almost 3 cores with Handbrake running at the same time. So Toast would appear to be much more optimized for the Mac Pro's MultiCores than it is for the Quad G5's Multicores. Same could be said for Handbrake - especially since it is not really fully Optimized for Mac Pro yet.
sjo
Aug 11, 03:44 PM
I don't need to travel to know that >99% mobile phone penetration is complete BS. Are you trying to say that EVERYONE in Europe has a cell phone?
Yes. EVERYONE. If you dont believe me, maybe you believe the economist:
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4351974
Please note that the graph is about three years old. Nowadays a lot more of the countries are over 100%.
Yes. EVERYONE. If you dont believe me, maybe you believe the economist:
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4351974
Please note that the graph is about three years old. Nowadays a lot more of the countries are over 100%.
scotty321
Apr 7, 10:46 PM
Anybody who knows anything about the people who work at Best Buy will tell you that they are all a bunch of untrustworthy backstabbing liars, and you can't trust a thing they do or a thing they tell you. Best Buy is the worst.
Warbrain
Apr 11, 11:53 AM
Just picked up a Atrix 4G and on my way checked out the iPhone 4 - it looks decidedly antique and bland in front of the competition...
And you'll be complaining about battery life and the Android experience in a few days.
And you'll be complaining about battery life and the Android experience in a few days.
kutsushita
Jun 12, 12:54 PM
Another potential problem...
How many iPhone 4s is Radio Shack going to
have in stock on first day of sale?
It's not like they are the Apple or AT&T store.
If I could be assured of a phone on day one
from Radio Shack the deal would be a pretty
good one.
All the radio shacks in Houston sold around 67k evos first day (or so I was told by a manager.)
If anyone is in Houston and shops the galleria they've started a preorder list at the location next to the sanrio store. The manager said they will be opening early on the 24th as well.
How many iPhone 4s is Radio Shack going to
have in stock on first day of sale?
It's not like they are the Apple or AT&T store.
If I could be assured of a phone on day one
from Radio Shack the deal would be a pretty
good one.
All the radio shacks in Houston sold around 67k evos first day (or so I was told by a manager.)
If anyone is in Houston and shops the galleria they've started a preorder list at the location next to the sanrio store. The manager said they will be opening early on the 24th as well.
Silentwave
Jul 14, 07:55 PM
Personally I go the BTO route at Apple.com for my PowerMacs and downgrade all RAM to the minimum cost and buy my RAM from a trusted 3rd party vendor for a savings of at least 10% if not more so.
sounds like a plan for me too. I just hope the prices drop soon and the selection gets a bit better :(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147+1052121731&Subcategory=147&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=
sounds like a plan for me too. I just hope the prices drop soon and the selection gets a bit better :(
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147+1052121731&Subcategory=147&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=
cfanyc
Sep 19, 09:54 AM
I think the no new mpb's today is hope that the special event b4 photokina will be about the mbp's with hopefully some new stuff as opposed to a release tues/wed with just a processor swap...
all this waiting is certainly a build up, if it was just the processor swap, it would blow big time....
all this waiting is certainly a build up, if it was just the processor swap, it would blow big time....
CaptMurdock
Mar 23, 12:08 AM
Which fact do you deny?
Considering the shellacking dished out by the others in this thread, I'm fairly sure you haven't presented any facts for me to deny.
Considering the shellacking dished out by the others in this thread, I'm fairly sure you haven't presented any facts for me to deny.
ServiceTag
Apr 8, 03:12 AM
These BB guys were making some odd and strange excuses for low stock. Made me run around on many occasions. They shouldn't be allowed to sell iPad. Apple take them away from these jack**s. :mad: You deserve it!!!!
Agree 100%. I wish BB goes out of business. Went 3x into different stores after I called and got confirmation they got shipment. Every time same stupid excuse - we can't sell it because of pre-orders, however we don't take pre-orders any more!?
In my area most BB managers are just bunch of corporate wanna be idiots....
Agree 100%. I wish BB goes out of business. Went 3x into different stores after I called and got confirmation they got shipment. Every time same stupid excuse - we can't sell it because of pre-orders, however we don't take pre-orders any more!?
In my area most BB managers are just bunch of corporate wanna be idiots....
chatin
Aug 22, 09:08 PM
The Woodcrest processors have been put through their paces pretty well on the supercomputing lists, and their Achille's heal is the memory subsystem. Current generation AMD Opterons still clearly outscale Woodcrest in real-world memory bandwidth with only two cores. Unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of their hat with their memory architecture issues when the quad core is released, AMDs quad core is going to embarrass them because of the memory bottleneck. And AMD is already starting to work on upgrading their already markedly superior memory architecture.
This is one of the drawbacks of using a server CPU on the desktop. In lights-off Xserve this would not matter as most of the data is already cached in memory.
I think there might be lights out for future MacPro Xeons if AMD where to catch up in the race.
:rolleyes:
This is one of the drawbacks of using a server CPU on the desktop. In lights-off Xserve this would not matter as most of the data is already cached in memory.
I think there might be lights out for future MacPro Xeons if AMD where to catch up in the race.
:rolleyes:
Multimedia
Aug 27, 04:03 PM
I really hope that they keep the option for a matte screen open when the upgraded MacBook Pros finally arrive.
I have been waiting a while now to upgrade to a MacBook Pro but have held off primarily as i would like to see if the enclosure gets a few nips and tucks a la Macbook!
The switchable HD bay would be awesome, and the magnetic latch and updated keyboard also would be nice but PLEASE DO NOT make glossy screen a standard on Pro notebooks!
I have a few friends who own PC laptops with glossy screens and all of them have keyboards imprinted on their screens! I cannot say from experience if this happens with the MacBooks but i'd rather not risk it....Closing A Laptop Without The Foam Barrier it ships with Or A Cloth Barrier Is Poor Maintenance. I would NEVER close my laptop without a barrier between the keyboard and the screen. I don't understand those who do. :rolleyes:
I still have the foam barrier and slipcase that came with my 3 year old PowerBook and always use them in addition to two iKlear (http://iKlear.com) cloth barriers on the keyboard as well as on the trackpad.
I have been waiting a while now to upgrade to a MacBook Pro but have held off primarily as i would like to see if the enclosure gets a few nips and tucks a la Macbook!
The switchable HD bay would be awesome, and the magnetic latch and updated keyboard also would be nice but PLEASE DO NOT make glossy screen a standard on Pro notebooks!
I have a few friends who own PC laptops with glossy screens and all of them have keyboards imprinted on their screens! I cannot say from experience if this happens with the MacBooks but i'd rather not risk it....Closing A Laptop Without The Foam Barrier it ships with Or A Cloth Barrier Is Poor Maintenance. I would NEVER close my laptop without a barrier between the keyboard and the screen. I don't understand those who do. :rolleyes:
I still have the foam barrier and slipcase that came with my 3 year old PowerBook and always use them in addition to two iKlear (http://iKlear.com) cloth barriers on the keyboard as well as on the trackpad.
amols
Aug 6, 08:52 AM
Not lame. Childish. I mean seriously. Is your (Generic your.) MBP any slower the day after they announce Core 2 MBPs? I swear to god it's almost as if people's lives are so incomplete that they need to feel special by having the top of the dog pile hardware. I received my MBP on Feb 21st at 10:30AM. Apple can do whatever they want. I'll still be enjoying my Mac at the same level I did on the 21st.
Well...I've used and ENJOYED iMac G4 for five years which is still going strong by the way. I just can't help but wonder how stupid and childish it is to expect that Apple will upgrade it already awesome MBP. The Merom CPU has very minor perforformance benefit over Yonah until Santa Rosa is out next year. It has double the L2 catch, 140M more transistors and 3 Watt/hour more cons (34W/H) than Yonah (31W/H). Conroe with faster FSB is a totally different story. So I personally have nothing against those poor souls expecting new notebooks but sympothy.
Well...I've used and ENJOYED iMac G4 for five years which is still going strong by the way. I just can't help but wonder how stupid and childish it is to expect that Apple will upgrade it already awesome MBP. The Merom CPU has very minor perforformance benefit over Yonah until Santa Rosa is out next year. It has double the L2 catch, 140M more transistors and 3 Watt/hour more cons (34W/H) than Yonah (31W/H). Conroe with faster FSB is a totally different story. So I personally have nothing against those poor souls expecting new notebooks but sympothy.
skunk
Mar 22, 07:39 PM
I don't think Obama was "dragged" into this at all, the US has gotten willingly involved - but to what extent do you think it was stage-managed?As far as necessary to make it appear that he was the "last piece of the jigsaw" rather than its inventor.
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